Hinge less Mast Setting

[DSiemens]

My current project is turning out to be a real tight squeeze. I want to be able to fill the bottle up but doing so makes the ship a tight fit. I'm thinking of using a method where the masts go into the bottle after the ship is in. The part I can't figure out with that is how the back stays work. I'm thinking right now of either using removable chain plates or tightening the stays after the ship is in. Has any one used this method? How is it done?

[ARUP]

All the rigging you want from the masts continues through the hull and out of its bottom then onto a 'control board'. The control board easily lets you see which rigging lines to pull to tighten. The rigging lines have to be plenty long so that when the masts are separated from the hull there is ample length to mount the masts on a temporary jig while the hull goes in the bottle. It is a good idea to run a line through the end of the mast where it steps into the hull. Make the mast stepping line pass through the mast so that it is a two line affair. This lets you know if the mast rotates about it axis inadvertently. When you pull the masts from the hull for the bottling of the hull wrap each mast loosely with tissue paper and wrap its rigging lines between the hull and mast with tissue paper. It's a little fiddly but helps keeps all the lines from tangling. Once the hull is set you start dragging the masts in one at a time. Once the ship and masts are in place I go into the bottle line by line, loosening each line, adding a touch of PVA glue using a long stick 'glue applicator' tool then pulling the line back into its hole with the PVA glue to set. After glue dries make a tiny razor tool on a stick to cut the lines and bury there loose ends in the clay. It's actually fun doing it this way. You can get a larger ship in your bottle that way. My 'Mozart' was such a tight fit I had to press it deeper into the 'water' because the main mast was interfering with the top of the bottle!  

[Roger]

Hier ein Video           

[Bottleneck Treasures]

Hi Daniel,

 

Don't know if this may help or not. I cannot remember the last time I built a SIB using the hinged method on the masts. All the masts

on my ships are pegged into a hole through the deck. All the rigging, her shrouds and stays are attached to the masts. In the process

of building the ship her outboard chain plates are not glued to the hull but rather double sided taped to her hull. So when I removed the

masts all her rigging, the backstays, shrouds and chain plates are one assembly. All other rigging is pre measured prior to the ship passing

through the bottleneck and then secured in place from inside the bottle.

 

 

 

Daniel,
 
Here are some photos of Thermopylae I'm building for a bottle. All the rigging you see is attached temporarily and
as I mentioned earlier her masts, backstays, shrouds and channels will be one assembly when they pass thru the 
bottleneck and the masts is pegged through the deck

Edited February 29, 2016 by Bottleneck Treasures

[Lord Nelson]

There was an article in Bottle Shipwright a while back on how to build a SIB the Japanese way where the ship goes in backwards. The lines on the bowstrip are secured at the bowstrip, through the masts and out the bottle. The masts are then pulled into the bottle one at a time and set in an indent in the hull. Once all lines are in the backstays are tied to a wire hook on the hull buy using a "sliding knot tool" that you make.

[DSiemens]

Thank you for your replies.

ARUP - interesting idea for setting the masts in place. I'll give that technique some thought.

Roger - great video.

David - your technique sounds a lot like what I had in mind. Good to know it works.

Nelson - the Japanese method has always fascinated me. I'll do some research into it. It may work for this model and even if I go a different route I'd like to try it out eventualy any way.

[Taiga]

Hi everybody!!!

 

Nelson, the article you were talking about is 1988-3 issue page 9 "(...)Japanese way." 

 

A lot of good ideas there (as usual!!)

 

Hope it will help

 

Dave Harvey

Edited February 29, 2016 by Taiga

[Dave Fellingham]

My current project is turning out to be a real tight squeeze. I want to be able to fill the bottle up but doing so makes the ship a tight fit. I'm thinking of using a method where the masts go into the bottle after the ship is in. The part I can't figure out with that is how the back stays work. I'm thinking right now of either using removable chain plates or tightening the stays after the ship is in. Has any one used this method? How is it done?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "chain plates" but assume you mean the channels which are strong, broad planks mounted horizontally on edge to the hull to keep the dead eyes in the chains away from the hull and to spread the shrouds farther out. Chain plates are at the attachment points of the chains from the deadeyes to the hull.

 

Drawing for a current project showing fore channel with deadeyes, chains and chain plates.

The channel is in red. Chains from one deadeye are in green and a chain plate is magenta.

Note that alternate chains here have doubled chain plates. Also note that the two chains at

extreme left (for topgallant and royal mast backstays) don't have chain plates.

 

 

Chain plates are used on more modern sail boats as shown here to

anchor backstays and were used historically on similar sized small boats.

 

 

The Philippine company that makes and internationally markets the tourist shop junk SiBs uses a technique similar to the one you're considering. They rig the ship outside the bottle by gluing the shrouds and backstays to the hull with PVA then soften the glue with alcohol (92% rubbing alcohol) to "un-glue" them. They then reassemble the ship and the masts with shrouds still attached (at the upper glue points) inside the bottle and re-glue the shrouds. They trim the excess after the glue dries. They do essentially the same thing with the center-line stays. They never use channels on their representations (I refuse to call anything built by that company "models" because they aren't). You may be able to glue the shrouds and back stays to the edges of the channels inside the bottle using the lower deadeyes as stops to get the shrouds and backstays tensioned like they were outside the bottle. You will have to be very careful about what glues you use and where because the alcohol will soften all the PVA it contacts.

[DSiemens]

Apperently I've had the wrong definition for the longest time. All well. You live and learn.

I am thinking of using a removable channel method. Right now I'm thinking of having a wire that will go into the hull on either end of the channel the will hold it in place. That way I don't have to worry about ungluing. We'll see how that works.