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Bruce Foxworthy

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Bruce Foxworthy last won the day on August 22

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  1. LINKS AND MY ISSUES: I have to apologize to you guys with respect to the link I posted above. I thought I had only captured A page of the history of Ludlow, but, ( when looked at again today ), I realize that I had in fact captured the remainder of the history of Lodlow, too. Sorry about that. I'm sure that lent itself to some mundane reading on your part that wasn't important at all to my point. I still have a lot to learn about manipulating information on a computer as well as utilizing this sites dynamics to process it. But I'm getting there. The main Point I was trying to reference by presenting this history of Ludlow, was that "warps", were being made there in the early to mid 1800"s. A "warp", is a thread on a roller basically and it is used in conjugation with another thread on a roller called the "weft" to weave fabric. Like bags and such. These are pretty fine threads suitable for building ships in bottles in that time frame and beyond. So defiantly Nills, or Anders, had that thread within reach with what they were doing as sailors at port. The use of it in the sail-makers shop on board is anyone's guess but probably was concerned with repairing sails and such.
  2. Jeff: Thank you for the thoughts on the types of wood that the tools could be made of. Suffice to say they are durable. I'm guessing that they were repurposed handles from some other original applications. Although Anders, might have had access to a lathe and made them himself. Strictly conjecture there. There is no doubt in my mind however that the working ends of the two punches were poured with a babbitt or lead material for the purpose of cementing the tips in place. I did tug on both of them with a pair of pliers at the tips to see if maybe they would come undone so I could for sure see if they were fids in there but to no avail. So they are stuck there. As far as weather they could be drills, well that's a kettle of fish right there? I'm thinking for sure they were used to put holes in his brass sails, and perhaps be used to chamfer the drilled holes. That contention I'll have to examine more closely as I start dissecting the builds. I'm also going to conduct an experiment and see if they could be utilized as drills. My inclination is to speculate that because they are both tapered that using them to drill wouldn't work. But we'll see. The experiment will provide me with the data I need to deem them punches or drills or chamfers or a combination of those things. The cordage could have come from the sail makers shop on board? I know that I have whipped lines with this kind of stuff myself before in the past and dressed those whips with beeswax. That was before I discovered dental floss was fabulous for doing whips. Back in the day when I was sailing I made sure all my sheets were whipped on the ends and that those whips could easily pass through the blocks as apposed to stopping the sheet. So low profile means fine cordage in this case. Bruce
  3. I'm Trying this again. h/books.google.com/books?id=LygWAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA225&ots=0Exs5bD6tf&dq=Ludlow Manufacturing And sales co. In Boston Mass&pg=PA222#v=onepage&q=Ludlow Manufacturing And sales co. In Boston Mass&f=false ttps:/Hopefully this one will turn blue when I post it. Otherwise i gotto find some one who can hel me figure this out. Anyway this is the little blurb from the history of where the thread was made.
  4. The last thing I want to show you is the spool of thread that was in Anders sea chest. The tag above says, REVERSE POLISHED, and is one tag of two. These are the two tags that identifies this spool. Around the mid 1800's this little town started manufacturing a lot of these and other weaving type products. When or if it ended I don't know because I haven't read the whole history yet. That said, for my purposes I wanted to know if this thread was within either Nils, or Anders, reach by a port in Boston Mass. I figure it was available to both of them. I can only imagine again how many ships were made with this stuff and how many thousands more remain around it's core. The tag above calls out the size I believe, of the cord but I can only be sure of the number 3. Below is a link, ( if I did it right ), that shows that beginning history of that area of Boston. I'm going to see if I can narrow down the approximate date this was made using the tags as trace bullets, if you like, but It might take me a while. So on the research hit list it goes. https://books.google.com/books?id=LygWAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA225&ots=0Exs5bD6tf&dq=Ludlow%20Manufacturing%20And%20sales%20co.%20In%20Boston%20Mass&pg=PA222#v=onepage&q=Ludlow%20Manufacturing%20And%20sales%20co.%20In%20Boston%20Mass&f=false Here is a side by side comparison of the threads. You tell me. They both measure .28mm/.012in. in diameter. The one on the left is attached to and from one of Anders masts. The one on the right is from the spool. I've now reached the point in all of this that it is time to start disassembling and restoring the little Brigantine. So I'll be busy for a while before I make another evidentiary entry. I have sure enjoyed this adventure so far. Hang on cause I'll be back. Regards Bruce
  5. HOORAY!!! I FOUND ANDERS CHISEL AND MORE: So the other day I was bemoaning over having miss placed Anders chisel. Just been bugging the hell out of me ever since. So this morning I went refiling threw my Hobby Center's drawers and I hit pay dirt. I had placed it along with two of his punches in the back of one of the drawers nearly out of sight. I was so happy when I found them that I kissed my dog. Who just happened to be by my side. I think you'll find these as interesting as I do and I just wonder how many ships were born with these home made tools in Anders hands?? And here is the chisel. I previously gave a description of it a while back but I was going from memory alone as I hadn't laid eyes on it in God knows how long. So negate the earlier description. The last picture in this group is a dimensional drawing I made of all these tools just in case anyone wants to make them. If I was going to make any of them, I certainly would round off the dimensions as they are so fractional. Which by the way, endorses the fact to me, that they were not production runs but rather made by hand, who knows how long ago. This is the tip that looks like it needs to be sharpened. I had also mentioned before, that I thought it was made out of the broken off end of a file. I still think that after looking at it again. Quite clever and perhaps was something Anders, learned from his Dad or a ship mate. I also wonder if Anders, Dad made these for him. Oh, my wild imaginations. These are the other ones, (awls or punches or both ), that were also originally in the box along with the chisel. There are some notable things about them. First off let's look at the longer of the two. You'll notice that the upper portion of the working end seems to have been burnt. I'm thinking that that is a direct result of how it was made. Notice there is a zig-zag pattern carved around the entire perimeter of the handles top that kinda looks like a crown in a way. The burnt mark goes onto the, ( Babbitt/Lead ), top of the tool as well. I'm pretty sure that what went down here is that Anders, drilled a small hole in that handle then drove a fid-needle, ( I believe that would be a three sided tapered one), into it, and then poured melted Babbitt or lead down the cavity. The topside diameter of which was being contained by something he wrapped around the handle. Maybe cardboard? Who knows? But however he did it, everything stayed stuck. A side note here, I'm once again not positive that the tip of this tool is a fid or not unless I pull it out. Which I'm not going to do. The conjecture here is that the other tool's tip, ( the sorter one on the right above), looks three sided to me. The shorter one also looks like a store bought handle. I calls dem as I sees dem. Take all of that for what it's worth. Here's a dimensional drawing, ( give or take a little ), of these three tools. I have no idea what kind of wood these are made of. But I should think if you wanted to create something similar to them, that a store bought small file handle would work just fine sawed off a little of course.
  6. Jeff: Yes indeedy. This book is a wonderful resource. I believe Anders, would still have been sailing in 1944 when this book was first published. On what and where is anyone's guess. He had just recently become a citizen of the U.S. around this time,too. The drawings are flat out fabulous and is part and partial one of the many reasons it took Ashley eleven years to create it.
  7. Exwafoo: The more I think about the Turks head or any dressing knot as being what this inscription is about, the more I'm thinking that it's probably not about that at all. The biggest reason for that deduction in my feeble mind anyway is, mainly that, Anders, was a seaman. He trained for six months on a training vessel at the age of 14 years old in 1918 and then he was employed on tall ships the remainder of his working life. He or any sailor would have known all these kinds of knots by heart as a matter of course. No need to have them written down. I'm thinking that the inscription has something directly to do with whats on the other side of that board, the rigging of the mast. Perhaps it's about the sewing pattern for making the lifts or the braces or pick one, but in any case related to the template board itself. Purely conjecture of coarse on my part because I don't know what it's saying. But it certainly isn't a recipe for Moms pie crust. About a hundred years ago when I was sailing there were two books you had to have on board one was," Chapman's book on Piloting", and the other was," Ashley's book of knots". I looked up Turks head knot recently in that book and there are nearly 30 pages of Turks. By the way there are 3,900 knots and how to tie them in this book. Still the last word in my opinion. Talk about getting yourself all tied up in knots. I recall this book was at my bedside for at least a year. Yes there is that much and it's fascinating reading too because it covers the inception of these knots as well. Here's just a few pages from this book.
  8. Daniel : That sea material is translucent as can be. Otherwise we wouldn't see those threads at all. What on earth could it be made out of?? I don't get how this method could keep the strings tight? On Anders, build, using the construction loop he has just at or below the water line he has created a double angular purchase of frictional resistance from the bowsprit to the loop to the sea material to help the strings stay tight even before they get covered with the sea. And I believe he needed every bit of that induced friction up front because where he cut the lines off coming from the construction loop was only about one and a half inches long or there about away from the loop. Friction is our friend in this situation for sure. B.
  9. Exwafoo: Honestly, the only place I see what looks like dried Elmer's glue on these builds so far anyway is at the attachment of the beads on the top of his masts. That said, I haven't really up close looked for glue and if there is any it sure isn't making itself very obvious at this point in my observations. One thing that makes it difficult to know of it's present on the rigging is that some of the tying on the yards ends are covered up with the paint he used. Which by the way can be considered a glue of sorts. Paint certainly is a binder to a degree. I'm familiar with Hide glue types as I have been restoring antique clocks and clock cases for about four decades now and have used the stuff along the way. As I dissect these three ships, glue and where is it is uppermost in my mind. My hypothesis is, until I know differently, that his building procedure didn't really need glue at all. I may be way off base about that but I need to see it to believe it. Time will tell on this whole did he or didn't use it point. Regards Bruce.
  10. D. I only see that method on the mizzen mast at the stern. There are only 5 lines for each side on that mast. The other masts have 6 lines per side and begin and end on the same side, tied off on the first and last line in the group. It's going to take me forever to figure out how to sew it. What a mess here. I think I've got a four masted clipper here! I might have the sails in the wrong places but pretty sure it's the whole enchilada. Unbelievable!! Notice the white beads on the top of the masts. A lot of measuring and documenting hole locations gonna have to happen on this puppy. While I was untangling them I found two more needles on a couple of lines . Now I have Three.
  11. D. Isn't this a fascinating puzzle??? How lucky am I. Especially seeings how I'm configured to sail.. I see no sign that he used glue on anything under the hull not even the wire loop is glued as far as I can tell. The running lines or sheets or whatever they are called look to me like they are just all tied together under the hull and then cut off?? I'll be taking a closer look at that for sure. As far as the stepping of the masts goes I'm thinking that just between the two string leads coming from the masts bottom and the stay sail line right behind it"s divot on the deck, that that should be that. Maybe a little persuasion from a long tool out side could facilitate. I'm sure I'm going to eventually find out. This "stop knot tecnique", you mentioned before ? Could it be used to help step the masts?? I've got to check and see if I can find any of those on these builds. Are Stop knots tied onto a string and then glued?,or are they tied in the line it's self. That would be hard to do I should think?? I'm going to look up stop knots on the forum and bone up on it. Thanks for checking in and commenting along as I go. I'll tell you this rigging thing is going to take me for a ride but then I'll have something invaluable for me to use in my own builds. To say nothing of all the other nuts and bolts I'm bound to find along the way. B.
  12. I'm also beginning to learn how this forums program works and doesn't. Learning curves all over the place for me lately. That's OK it keeps me off the streets. I've got to insert some stuff that got left behind in the last post. Previously I was giving you the dimensions of the carved hull but I failed to include how tall it was. So here it is. From the top tip of the bowsprit to the bottom of the hull measures, 20.80mm/.819in. Which probably is just enough clearance for the average neck to manage well? The two pictures above are fairly self explanatory. They are first, the eye of his needle and then next is a drawing of it's dimensions. The circle around the eye's half is calling out the diameter of the piece of wire he used to make it. I'm definitely going to make some of these and throw away my #10 needles. I have no idea what kind of wire it is at all. This thing handles beautifully and I'm sure I'm going to need one or two in order to complete his rigging maze. I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now I need to inclue a picture of the needles tip. So here it is. Check out this tip!! Unbelievable! As soon as I make one I'm going to show you guys. Here I am getting all carried away with this thing and every single one of you probably already have made and use them. Novice stuff.
  13. WONDERFUL FIND HERE. In the bottom of the box there are five hulls for ships already carved. Each one different from the other. The one in the middle and the one just below that are all drilled out for the rigging all ready. And those two are drilled differently from each other. So Anders, has several rigging platforms he chooses from depending on what kind of ship is going to be built? They both seem to be for, four masted clippers but I don't know that for sure yet. The very bottom hull has no bowsprit carved on it. He must be planning on using a dowel here for that hull. This may be another option he has adopted for his building process but clearly the use of a dowel bowsprit is not in the majority represented here as the norm in his procedure and could be a recent adaptation for Anders. The seven masted schooner is the only build of the three that has a dowel bowsprit on it. I'm thinking that, what I'll call his standard hull design represented here is the way he learned to do it from his dad and for the most part stuck to what he knew. Although the evidence here is telling me that he is definitely branching out in his methodology and all over the place at that. Daniel, and I were speculating that the inclusion of a carved bowsprit in the hull design may have originally been born from, what you have at hand necessity or work with what you got protocol. My contention is too, that this hull design concept is very old. The bottom hull here looks like mahogany to me and he has carved a Fantail ( I believe is what you call it?), at the stern. Besides no carved bowsprit and the fantail he also has carved bulwarks all around the perimeter, so quite a different hull altogether from the majority here. This hull which is the fourth one down from the top in the above picture. I'm pretty sure I have an already made up suit of sails for it in the box that are ready to go. I'll show you those soon and I'll know more about that possibility in the coming weeks. Isn't that exciting!! It just might be that everything I need to build one of Anders, little gems is staring me right in the face. I'd be flabbergasted if it were true. I'd Build it for sure and what a privilege for me. Go figure. We'll see? The dimensions of this hull are as fallows. The length is, 133.78mm/5.267in. The beam is 14mm/.550in.... A point I'd like to make about the beams concerning all these hulls is that they will handily go down a bottles neck and is another indication to me anyway that their origin could be considered Old School. Something fairly complete in one piece of wood and easy to handle inside a bottle or store in there for that matter. Here's the bottom of this same hull. I'm totally mesmerized when I'm looking at this stuff. What's going to go through that hole?? on and on. I think it's a beautiful carving. A work of art really. I use to have his chisel that was in his box that I'm assuming again, he made himself or his dad did but anyway, I've miss placed it some where along the twenty-seven years. It was about four inches long all together. So a short little thing. The handle was kinda like a screw driver handle and driven in the end of this handle was what looks all the world to me to be the broken off end of a file that was ground down on a grinding wheel to have a chiseled tip with a width of about an 3.17 mm/ .125 in. I sure hope that thing is around here somewhere I've definitely got my eyes out for it. Fingers crossed. Here's the top. I'm beginning to figure out whats going in what hole by looking at the little clipper who is fully rigged and comparing the two against each other. They're pretty close actually less one mast that is. The little guy is a three masted rig. This next picture to me is a treasure. I have found inside the box, the sewing needle Anders, made and used with his own hands. It fits beautifully into his drilled holes on the hull and on the masts. Isn't she a beauty????? What a find!!!!
  14. Daniel: Great research D. on the glue front. Thanks for the input it's much appreciated. This is important information to consider when looking for the origin of the species for sure. One thing I stumbled on when Googling around is the year Elmer's Glue Products came out. Which was 1947. So glue for sure by then. Anders would have been 43 by then. Been at sea a long time by now. Probably made a dozen SIB's on board by then. My guess? What's the probability, if it could be done, he would have made at least one without using any glue when he was younger?? I also would like to know if the galleys and the wood shop were located near each other on clippers. Or if the wood-shop had some kind of charcoal type grill thingy-do or some heat source in them to make glue?. Things like this can be known and are on my hit list to research. The glue element, With respect to the evolution of, an original building process practiced by Nils, ( who learned it from some shipmate ), and when, glue of any kind was available; who used it first for the craft is no doubt going to be a moving target impossible to catch. Certainly, Anders, used glue on these three ships and he's innovated an number of material replacement elements to the build practice. Quite marvelous in my mind. He seems like he's really bright and probably had a witty sense about himself that attracted people to him. I kinda like the guy. Just sayin. In this whole exploration thingy I'm doing, I sometimes pretend I'm an archeologist and I'm looking underneath the foundation of an old Roman Amphitheater because some one said it was built on top of an older temple for one of the Gods, and I should verify the records. Hysterical!! I think she's wright, I'm off my rocker. One thing that is so amazing about what's inside this box is that It's become apparent to me that these three ships are, each one, showing differences here and there between themselves in building practices, that it's indicative a lot of evolution going on here with Anders. I will make a point of showing you guys his use of a wire hook that becomes a boom. His change from wooden yards to wire yards. His use of a dowel bowsprit as opposed to a carved one. And who knows what else I'll find? I think in my own mind it's a pity that we can never know things like, the time spans there were among these three builds I've got here. I'm guessing a couple of years maybe more maybe less. I hate all these "Who knows?," dead ends. I bet Indiana Jones Never had to put up with that crap! As far as the rigging issue goes I'm as anxious as you are to know what I'm looking at. Because believe me I haven't really got as much of a clue as you guys collectively do. To that point, I made a statement yesterday regarding the side shroud back-stay lines that I shouldn't have because I don't really know for sure if they are sewn with just one thread or not . They do appear to be. I'll be more careful about assuming in the future. They do not go underneath the hull. I'm going to load up some pictures of the little clipper and maybe you can see better whats going on. For me, I have to take it apart to really understand it and that's going to take some time because Documenting where and how these lines move around is critical for me to understand. To my eyes this ship is rigged beautifully. Everything appears to be there that should be. So it should be interesting to see how I unravel this matrix of interwoven lines and get a blueprint from it. Big challenge for me here. What a fabulous learning opportunity this is turning out to be. It just gets better and better. This picture is pretty bad. but it shows that the right and left lines are tied off. The main mast is the picture above. The fore mast also has six lines and is tied like the main. The mizzen mast only has five lines one is tied off on on the front line starboard and the other one is tied off on the rear line port. pretty sure this is the main mast with it's line hinge and next to the mast is a stay sail line going under the hull where it will come out of. Here's the bottom. The stern is on the right. No black thread. Not many lines coming out of the bottom of the hull into the sea material here I'll defiantly get some better pictures of this rigging eventually. At this point I'll start my documentation of the rigging matrix by starting with the brigantine first . It's the simplest so less confusing to me. Hopefully It's mast will be rigged like the ones on the clipper. We'll see about that. I have a few more things to reveal in this thread about the contents of the box before I start doing any dissecting of stuff. And these things I defiantly want to put forth as data points to be considered in the whole sweep of things when we're looking at the building processes within Anders, build box. More tomorrow. Thanks again for your thoughts and info Every bit is a help.
  15. DAY THREE ENTRY: I had a revelation last evening that is clearly a definitive signature of Anders and his fathers Nils, building process. That is concerning the employment of a wire loop that is found at the waterline of these hulls bows. Upon closer examination of the 7 masted schooner build, it is apparent that the forestay/jibstays lines emanating from the underside of the bowsprit, pass through the wire loop and out of the bottle. From that wire loop the lines are pulled and the masts are erected. Case Closed. Earlier I had wrongly thought that the mast lines and the stay lines went through the wire loop. I stand corrected. Here are pictures of this wire loop common to all the builds. location at waterline. Location on the three masted clipper. The stay lines are broken off. Location at the bow of the Thomas W. Larson. The wire loop is covered with sea material but you can clearly see that the stays are coming down from the underside of the bowsprit and going to the loop, then come out of it. The wire loop is broken off of the brigantines bow. This is the bow of the Thomas W. Lawson. Notice how long the wire loops end goes into the bow and that it is bent at the end and stuck down into the hull. Anders must have expected a lot of load being pulled on the loop to raise all seven masts and prepared for that circumstance. This is the wire loop for a four masted clipper yet to be assembled. The loop is much shorter and the ends are twisted together and not driven into the bottom of the hull. Take a good look at the lines coming out of the bottom of the hull in this picture. They are for the seven masts and there are fourteen of them. They all end respectively at around 36.50mm/1.436in, past the wire loop as do consequently the stay lines coming from the loop. I made a rough measurement of these lines lengths relative to each other and I found there is only a max deviation in these lengths of 8mm/.315in, collectively. So making this observation, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that there was " no glue" used to secure these lines but rather only the wight of the sea material on top of these lines. Other mitigating circumstances that can help support that conclusion are, there is the friction born of the two lines for every mast scenario. This coupled with the double purchase resistance from the underside of the bowsprit angle through the loop angle and into the sea material. I think all the lines were buried into the sea one at a time and cut off at relatively the same place inside the bottle. I'm also going to suggest it's not that critical,( but sure would be nice ), to know the chemical makeup of the sea material. We can draw some conclusion about the physical properties it exhibits just by the observance of what residues I have of it; still stuck to the hulls and lines of these ships. I think I mentioned earlier that it sticks with a ferocious tenacity. Dude it's stuck there! It appears to be stained with some green coloring? Another mystery? It seems to want to crack off when you try to cut into it with a #11 X-ACTO blade. So I say it's brittle as hell. As far as I can tell, just from these observation, I certainly don't think that this material couldn't hold the lines tight right from the get-go. I also have observed, ( and will be delving into this area soon ), that the running rigging stays topside but does go back and forth underneath in the hulls cavity. The only other part to be accounted for are the ratlines, side shrouds and back-stays. My observance on that front is two-fold. One, these lines originate and terminate on the bulwarks. Two, They are sewn to the masts with a single thread. We could talk about glues but if we go there lets start on some factual conjectures. Nils who is Anders father taught Anders how to build ships in a bottles. Then he, Nils, must have learned it and practiced it for years by the time Anders was born in 1904. So what kind of glues do you suppose were readily available on board a clipper in lets say the mid to late 1800"s??? There is only one glue I can think of and that glue would be Hide glue. Hide glue comes on board in crystalline form in cloth bags. It has to be cooked with water to 140 degrees to become glue. More than likely if glue was to be made at all it was for a specific job at hand. Let's face it a 140 degree fire on board a wooden vessel is a big deal. So I don't thing the guys on board could readily avail themselves of it. Rules out glue. So I'm standing on my hypothesis today that in fact this method of building SIBS originated in at least the mid 1800". Until I realize proof otherwise, then that's my story and I'm stickin to it. Wait till You see what I got to show you tomorrow. Your not going to believe what I found in the box this morning. It's the coolest homemade tool I've ever seen. Stay tuned cause episode four is coming up soon.
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